Updated June 11, 2008 Finally got the 2.4 adjustments:

  • Blacksmithing Weaponsmith changes (main-hand to one-hand changed and added to off-hand index below).
  • Corrected Talon of the Phoenix Main Hand weapon.
  • Weapon speeds adjusted for EP value indexing.

Updated March 30, 2008 Added two more Patch 2.4 items:

Click on images below for more detailed stats on each item.

Main-Hand Choices:

main-handindex24.jpg

 

Off-Hand Choices:

off-handindex24.jpg

Note: Please regard these rankings based on *my* formula and you should use your own formula if you want a perfect comparison (i.e. Shiv of Exsanguination vs. Netherbane values). Please come up with *your* list of weapons if you do not agree with my list. Just saying that one comparison is incorrect without your own list and formula is just nay saying and lacks any serious credibility. Pointing to a sim to run each comparison is simply pointing to a tool, but you need to run your mechanism for each and every weapon for a worthwhile analysis. Your mileage may vary!

History:

I started this based on the pure dps and speed factors to derive the baseline weapons values: ((DPS*Speed) + 0.5*DPS)/3, but now I’ve added the stats and ability modifiers based on EP values from Elitist Jerks Enhancement Shaman theorycrafters.

Updated Feb 8, 2008 to reflect upper tier pvp items and 2.3 patch changes.

Updated Feb 12, 2008 to divide up the Main-hand (purple) vs. Off-hand (blue) choices. Off-hand BEST values are roughly 50% value overall when compared to Main-hand full damage coefficient. Included 3 weapons from PTR 2.4 patch.

Updated Feb 13, 2008 Reviewed and calc EP values according to http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t13297-enhance_shaman_collected_works_theorycraft_vol_i/

Ok. I’ve finally factored in the +stats and EP derived values for each weapon. The only thing I have not included is the proc EP values of say… Dragonstrike haste effect. Because this “Chance on hit: increase haste rating by 212 for 10 seconds” is proc based, I have not included its added benefit to the overall value of the item, even though in-game it is highly effective. More next update on procs.

Updated Feb 14, 2008 Also: added basic gems to add +strength and +crit to sockets for weapons that have a socket slot as well as global 20% PPM on Chance on hit: abilities. Added additional 3 dps for The Decapitator for the hurl damage added every 3 minutes.

Updated Feb 21, 2008 Added in more Patch 2.4 items including:

  • Blade of Serration
  • Shiv of Exsanguination
  • Grip of Mannoroth
  • Swift Blade of Uncertainty
  • The Mutilator
  • Vanir’s Left Fist of Brutality
  • Vanir’s Left Fist of Savagery
  • Bombardier’s Blade
  • Vanir’s Right Fist of Brutality

General formula :

Enhancement Shaman Value = weapon dps * (( main-hand EJ EP 9.03 /2.6 ) * speed)
+ (attack power * t5 modifier 1.0)
+ (strength * t5+kings modifier 2.2)
+ (agility * t5 modifier 2.0)
+ (crit rating* t5 modifier 2.0)
+ (hit rating * t5 modifier 1.4)
+ (haste rating * t5 modifier 1.5)
+ (armor penetration * t5 modifier 0.3)
+ (expertise rating * t5 modifier 3.0)
+ (special abilities on-use and chance-on-hit)

Your kilometer/mileage may vary.

Credits:

http://nerfmyshaman.blogspot.com/2007/08/gentlemen-choose-your-weapons.html

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=1CFF3B8BD435F0CCC7A1CAD8D3CDEA7E?topicId=110633228&sid=1

42 Responses to “Weapons Index”


  1. 1 Anankorn February 12, 2008 at 8:48 am

    Nice utility, but you will really need to include stats on the weapons to make it a correct listing of choices. The stats especially matter for offhands, since OH damage is cut in half, but stats are not affected by the penalty. A lower DPS weapon with higher stats/sockets/stuff might well be better overall for OH than something with higher DPS; Fool’s Bane is arguably better in OH than Decapitator for this reason.

    A raw damage chart is well and good, but might be misleading when looking at the big picture. 😉

    Commendations on your effort tho!

    Anankorn
    Hellscream-EU

  2. 2 asirae February 12, 2008 at 9:04 am

    Yep. That’s coming up next. Formulating EP values according to T4, T5, T6 based on the theorycraft ala section 3.1 Enhancement Points (EP) Stat Weight System found in this topic http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t13297-enhance_shaman_collected_works_theorycraft_vol_i/

    Stay tuned.

  3. 3 Qualia February 12, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    Pretty sure ‘Rage’ and ‘Fury’ is 2.6spd, not 2.7 as listed up there.

    Qualia
    Barthilas – US

  4. 5 asirae February 13, 2008 at 8:52 am

    Anyone have a proc per minute for weapons compiled?

  5. 6 Anonymous February 13, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Did you take into account the +3 DPS the “on use” ability The Decapitator gives? Note this damage is not reduced by the off hand penalty.

  6. 7 asirae February 13, 2008 at 11:10 pm

    No, the throw ability for The Decapitator was not included, but now it is!

    Note: If you spammed the Hurl, it would it add an average of 3.0 dps. If dual weilding Decapitator, it shares a cooldown with itself, so no double throwing within the cooldown period.

    So:
    3 dps = Average(513, 567) = 540 thrown damage every 3 minutes / 120

    That would bump up the Decapitator from 92.1 dps to 95.1 dps. The EJ EP would move from 885.7 to 912.8 for main-hand weapon; 405.9 for off-hand EJ EP value.

    Updated list based on sockets, procs from haste and hurl damage from decapitator.

  7. 8 Anonymous February 14, 2008 at 10:49 am

    It’s also worth noting that the /use ability of the Decapitator doesn’t reset your swing timer.

  8. 9 Dajay February 14, 2008 at 11:48 am

    Ok, so it seems that WEotP is still better that Dragonstrike due to the haste nerf.
    Do you plan to switch BS spec then ?

  9. 10 asirae February 14, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    I did two 10 minute tests on the Haste effect of Dragonstrike and found a 35% proc rate. The Haste effect would need to proc no less than 45% of the time in order for it to jump over the Wicked Edge of the Planes. /sigh Even better if I was an Orc with better Axe skill.

    Once I have the 8Xprimal nethers and 5xNether Vortexes, I will likely switch to Master Axesmith.

    The only deterring factor is if a Syphon Nathrezim drops or go for the Vengefull PVP items, but it might be a while before that happens.

  10. 11 asirae April 4, 2008 at 3:27 am

    Damn. I just got Claw of Molten Fury and I actually passed on the next drop during MH: Fist of Molten Fury. Both dropped in 30 minutes from each other. I love being a shaman!

    More Mongoose enchant farming, uhhh.

  11. 12 Tajhz April 10, 2008 at 10:22 am

    please delete my post above, after reading further down i realized the mistake that I myself made, i appoligize.

  12. 13 asirae April 11, 2008 at 6:44 am

    @Tajhz: np at all. thanks for checking up on me. I’ve been corrected before and I’m glad people are typing in to help shamans everywhere.

  13. 14 Kiki April 16, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    do you think double Syphon would be good? so many forums about it but tyhey dont give a definite answer :s help!

  14. 15 Toots Hepcat April 17, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    Ok — when we asked you NOT to publish your weapon list on the ej forums, it was because we wanted to avoid misinformation based on your misunderstanding of EP calculations. Here, you’ve gone and done it anyway, and lo and behold, misinformation abounds.

    Having the Shiv on the list of offhands is a good example. A quick simulation shows that equipping the Shiv is a 30 dps reduction vs equipping Netherbane. It’s also decreased the AP->DPS conversion from .25 to .243, effectively reducing the value of EVERY stat — meaning the better your gear is, the worse switching to the Shiv is.

    The reason why is easy to understand — a fast offhand does far less damage from Windfury and Stormstrike and robs the mainhand of Flurry charges and chances to proc Windfury.

    This feedback effect of fast weapons has not been factored into your table and without it you will always have suggestions that simulation will show to be DPS decreases.

    Many theorists are musing on the right way to compare two weapons of variant speeds, but the long and short of it is that the WDPS to AP conversion can ONLY be used with weapons of the same or very similar (within .2s) speeds. My own testing seems to imply that every .1s faster than 2.6 decreases TOTAL DPS by .5% down to 2.2s, where it takes an even larger jump. This happens with BOTH MH and OH weapons.

    The ONLY way to accurately predict upgrades is to use a simulation. Different shamans with different gear WILL get dramatically different results that what your table shows. Making the claim that Shaman DPS can be reduced to a universal list is inaccurate, especially considering your list is based on bad theory.

    I seriously hope no raiding shamans were dumb enough to pick up daggers based on your suggestion. Personally, I’d like you remove the “EJ” from your EP calculations as well, since not only did the community NOT bless your math, we told you it was bunkum.

  15. 16 asirae April 18, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Toots Hepcat:

    I agree w/what you are saying, but I am saying something else.

    One: Here’s a news blast: some people just don’t want to run a sim. Dumb as it may be, all dps shamans have not run a sim to decide on gear. I know, I know… silly enough, but true.

    Two: Your theory and mine are different. I am not including all possible variables, just a basis for (if every shaman wore the same gear + buff + abilties + talents + attacked the same vs. a raid boss) measuring the impact of each weapon coupling (main & off) based on 2.6 speed weapons (the most popular, but only by data mining wowarmory to get 64% of enhancement spec’d shamans have 2.6 weapons), and using the stats modifiers found on EJ Enhance Shaman Theorycrafting for T6-ish gear. I admit that assumption is widely in error, so I encourage you to make a list (multiple lists) for each weapon speed.

    I am not deceiving anyone, this is *my* list of weapons and complete theorycraft for sure. If you make the assumption of this is a standard for enhance shamans, maybe this is some form of a compilation of EJ theorycrafting, or that I am publishing this to make it so, then you are the fool, not I.

    Three: No problem with removing the EJ label.

    A reason why I wanted to put up a weapon index was to provoke conversation & competition. I’ve never seen any other such indexes, so I made my 1st draft.

    I was hoping some of the experienced and wise enhancement shamans out there would come up with some kind of list of weapons themselves or a better “tool” to compare gear with (maxdps.com is pretty close), but no one has communicated effectively, just citing one example or another but not bothering to come up with a definitive list or formula that will work for 99% of weapons out there. I get the following :

    a) EJ forum members say there is no way to do it, in fact it is stupid to attempt it
    b) EJ forum members say every shaman is different
    c) formulae is different for each situation
    d) addons do it for you
    e) people just say this index here is trash, but the same people can only criticize rather than come up with something like this themselves because of the previous mentioned excuses

    What I propose is this:
    a) assume every enhance shaman is the same (gear, talents, etc.)
    b) assume this list is for PVE vs. raid bosses
    c) show each sim result (time consuming I take it, but then you would have the accuracy you so much desire).

    Until I see something better, I’m going to continue to use this.
    This is one’s attempt at a weapons list, no more, no less.

    Take it with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.

    – A

  16. 17 Obeliske April 19, 2008 at 4:44 am

    Congrats to Asirae personally i like the list maybe it doesnt cover every situation but at least its a better starting point for those of us who dont like to sit there doing the math… Ive been looking for something like this fora while and its just really nice to find one for enhance shaman.

    From the bottom of my Fist weapons
    Thank you for the list

  17. 18 asirae April 21, 2008 at 4:55 am

    @Kiki: Dual Syphons would be great indeed, but I would also consider using Syphon on your main hand | off hand using the 45-badge reward of Vanir’s Left Fist of Brutality

    I think you will get more bang for your buck that way.

    @Obeliske: you’re welcome

  18. 19 DJ April 24, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    Nice list. Looks like I’m I’m going to be working a while to upgrade my MH Gladiator Mace and my OH Fool’s Bane…. My next jump will be to get the Venir’s Right Fist and move my Gladiator Mace to my OH. 40 badges to go. I tend to spend my arena points on Vengeful armor… since I can’t seem to reach those top ranks to purchase the season 3 weapons right now.

    Which kind of brings me to another little request. Any good enchanement shammys like to share some arena tips/advice? Maybe asirae could do a post on this subject??? 🙂

  19. 20 asirae April 25, 2008 at 7:44 am

    PVP: it’s been awhile since I dedicated to PVP. Basically, I carried around Deep Thunder or Stormherald and I could only get one or two strikes on any class, so I made my 1 or 2 swings count: a lot!

    arenas: I basically counted on Heroism/Bloodlust and maxing out AP for a 30% chance for a WF proc on a caster or softy class for a 8k – 10k triple or quadruple WF. A lot of Arena is based on luck, but just need to call out the enemy to strike first, get the team behind you and WHACK him fast before he gets a chance to counter/retaliate.

    Run quick and carry a bit friggin stick.

  20. 21 Anonymous June 4, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    On your list talon of the phoenix is way down and having a look at the detail it would seem that its down there because you havent entered the stats fro it (and if i remember vorrectly it has a lot of stats on it)

  21. 22 asirae June 5, 2008 at 5:32 am

    Ah yes. Thanks for that. I have left the +crit, +hit and +ap for Talon of the Phoenix out by mistake. I will correct the listing and I also am adding in the Blacksmiting | Weaponsmith main-hand turned one-hand weapons too.

    I will update this soon. Thanks again.

  22. 23 Exelus June 11, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    /applaud you for your efforts here, it’s always great to have another resource to cross-check our own research against. It’s particularly helpful for those of us who aren’t elitist jerks and in the highest-end of raiding guilds, to see where the next upgrades might come from. Keep up the good work, /ignore asshats like Hepcat.

  23. 24 Taicho June 19, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Few statements.

    1: It’s great that a list like this is put together, it allows at-glance comparison of the AEP values of different weapons.

    2: Exelus: Saying that someone is an asshat simply because he states an opinion (without any personal attacks) is quite ignorant. (That means your statement was ignorant, not you personally.)

    3: Daggers + Windfury = crying baby jesus. Just don’t do it. The list is useable of you take away all daggers/sub 2.4 speed weapons. (Ooooh, my offhand dagger just windfuried for 100, 200 and 230! New OH WF record!)

    Testing has shown that daggeroffhand + flametounge can be used as a stopgap measure in between weapons, but does not compare to 2.5+ weapons. If anyone goes out and bids on a dagger that others were hungry for based on your list, they will and SHOULD be contested in that decision.

    I applaud your list and the initiative, but I criticise your inclusion of subpar enhancement weapons in it. (If you would present logs like the ones frequent on the rest of your page to prove that daggers are viable, I will retract my statement and fully endorse the list.)

    Prove it! Make me a believer!

  24. 25 asirae June 20, 2008 at 1:47 am

    “…but I criticise your inclusion of subpar enhancement weapons in it. (If you would present logs like the ones frequent on the rest of your page to prove that daggers are viable, I will retract my statement and fully endorse the list.)”

    Thanks for your comment. I am always trying to improve the stuff here. If you have the criticism, then you should also provide the data/formula/facts to back it up, otherwise it is your opinion, no? I will try to perform a test myself, but you can make yourself a believer by doing the same thing. If I have time, I’ll gladly do a test to share my results with you.

    So what should I test?
    What have I got to test with?
    Offhand or mainhand, or both?
    Use grey weapons so the baseline of the tests have less variants to skew results?
    Imbues are both Windfury 5, or a mix of Flametoungue or Rockbiter or Frostbrand?

    tests:
    (a) [2.6 main-hand WF + 2.6 off-hand WF]
    (b) [2.6 main-hand WF + 1.8 off-hand WF]
    (c) [1.8 main-hand WF + 1.8 off-hand WF]
    (d) [1.8 main-hand WF + 2.6 off-hand WF]

    My educated guess is that test (a) above will out damage the others.

    Thanks for the comment.

    – A

  25. 26 Exelus June 27, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    @Taicho – I used the term on Hepcat not because he made a personal attack, but because of his annoyingly elitist attitude: “we told you not do something, and here you went and did it.” Lolwut? Last time I checked, no one’s been crowned King of Teh Interwebs. I stand by my comment.

  26. 27 asirae June 28, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    Yeah. I agree. I was in Goon Squad turned EJ on Mal’Ganis with Ganadar for the 1st year in 2004-2005, ganking it oldshool on the noob alliance like the Moon Dancers (all elf guild), but I play on another realm now. Unless the quote comes from a real EJ that I know and love, then I can’t really give someone like Toots much street cred.

    Shout out to ole Ganadar, Clownboat, Eviscerator & the rest. /love

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  1. 1 Updated BEST (Base Enhancement Shaman Table) for Weapons « Raiding Enhancements - Shaman Trackback on February 8, 2008 at 3:53 am
  2. 2 Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 282 - Elitist Jerks Trackback on February 13, 2008 at 6:03 am
  3. 3 Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I - Page 288 - Elitist Jerks Trackback on February 18, 2008 at 10:49 am
  4. 4 Updated Weapons Index | More 2.4 patch weapons « Raiding Enhancements - Shaman Trackback on February 21, 2008 at 5:59 am
  5. 5 Zul’Aman to Zul’jin « Raiding Enhancements - Shaman Trackback on March 17, 2008 at 4:01 am
  6. 6 Updated Weapons Index « Raiding Enhancements - Shaman Trackback on June 11, 2008 at 12:02 am

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